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Question Posted By: JimmyD on 9-30-2007

Back to Questions

Make of Bike:	HD
Model of Bike	fxr
Year of Bike	92
Engine Size	80ci
Other info on Bike	se heads, sifton 143(ev27) cam, accel mega fire ignition module.
What's your question?	How about timing?
Details:	When setting timing on a harley you turn idle up??? So timing is advanced? Accel module says turn all dip switches on (or off i'll read back again) then set.THis makes module fire at full advance? What about voes? Keep plugged in? And I raised vacuum on voes but with the S&S there is slooow air flow thru carb so should i lower voes back to 3 or 4 lbs (or inches of mercury or whatever)? With hotter setup like i have i read i should have the higher vacuum setting but that might have been with the stock cv carb which keeps "Constant Velocity" unlike the gay ass S&S which looks good but sucks and blows in every other way (It's a glorified keihin).

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Answers:

"When setting timing on a harley you turn idle up???
Idle speeds are in reference to carburetor adjustments - not timing. To time your (stock) ignition with the full advance mark, at the flywheels, you run the engine past 2000+ rpm. With an aftermarket ignition...read the instructions.
"Accel module says turn all dip switches on (or off i'll read back again) then set.THis makes module fire at full advance?"
I suggest you become more familiar with your "custom" ignition!
"What about voes? Keep plugged in?"
The Acccel ignition probably has its own advance curve built in. Using the factory VOES would probably be redundant and I don't see how you could use both of them together in the same wiring harness.
"With hotter setup like i have i read i should have the higher vacuum setting but that might have been with the stock cv carb which keeps "Constant Velocity" unlike the gay ass S&S which looks good but sucks and blows in every other way (It's a glorified keihin)."
S&S carburetors work fine, if you know what your doing, and can read above 5th-grade level and understand what you've read. Given, the buttterfly Keihin sucks a dick, but the CV you praise...was also made by Keihin.
What you have here is a custom-built engine. It's not going to respond or tune like a stock engine. You're going to have to figure out for yourself how to make it run right. Good luck!
By: 47Knuckle-Dragger on: 10-1-2007

Ok, let me start by saying I really appreciate the response...Thank you. Now ..."Accel module says turn all dip switches on (or off i'll read back again) then set.THis makes module fire at full advance?" I suggest you become more familiar with your "custom" ignition! ----Exactly what i'm trying to do...I have no manual accel was a used swap meet part. ************************************** "The Acccel ignition probably has its own advance curve built in. Using the factory VOES would probably be redundant and I don't see how you could use both of them together in the same wiring harness." ----It requires a voes or at least has the wire if I choose to use it. ********************************** "Given, the buttterfly Keihin sucks a dick, but the CV you praise...was also made by Keihin. -----its a glorified NON CV KEIHIN. And my S&S works OK but to compare to cv smoothness or mik smoothness and larger bore ...Can you compare them? Ok I guess what I need to know is how to time...I tried plastic plug short and long,rubber hose screwd in there i still cant see shit. Any pointers? Voes, 7lbs...3lbs? Maybe I can adjust while bike is running and listen for pinging? I think i need to raise lbs on voes cuz pinging at slight acceleration but dont understand why. Then if I change voes does that change final full advance or just "WHEN" it reaches full advance. Does module have actual curve or just advance---not advanced. I understand mechanical wierghts just advance but theres no curve. Is this correct? If I understand exactly whats happening I can figure out what to do. By: JimmyD on: 10-1-2007

"I have no manual accel was a used swap meet part."
Then be your own best advocate on this...find out the information for yourself. You can start by Googling purchasing the instructions that originally came with the product. They'll probably send you the shit for free.
"-It requires a voes or at least has the wire if I choose to use it."
Exactly..."IF"...meaning you can use the VOES as your advance module, or use the designed-in Accel advanced curves that come with the dipshit switches. Like I said...I doubt you can use both in tandem.
"And my S&S works OK but to compare to cv smoothness or mik smoothness and larger bore...Can you compare them?"
I'd rather not get into a which-carburetor-is-best debate. All things equal in the universe - both carburetors work well in certain applications. In other applications...they take some modifications. Without a hands-on situation...dianostics and recommendations, over the internet sucks a dick at best. You CAN download the installation instructions for your S&S carburetor, in .pdf format, directly from the S&S website. Tweaking your S&S isn't that hard for the modifications you have. Aside from checking for manifold vacuum leaks and jet changes...it's fairly simple. Jets are cheap...for about $25 or $30 you can buy the next sizes up, or down, and experiment with them.
"Ok I guess what I need to know is how to time...".
Not a problem. Buy a service manual.
"I tried plastic plug short and long, rubber hose screwed in there i still cant see shit. Any pointers?
In order to see the timing marks you need to know how to set the plastic plug up. You can't just screw it in there and expect to see the timing marks. It's not a window. First, you have to have "clean" oil. Second, bring the marks up on the hole, wipe the oil off and mark the grooves with a white enamel paint with an artist's brush. Third, when the paint has dried, screw the plug in until it bottoms out on the flywheel, then back it off an eighth of a turn. That creates an oil bridge between the plastic and the flywheel so the light can transfer to the flywheel marks. If it bottoms out on the case first...you'll never see the mark on the wheel.
Myself, I don't even fuck with plastic plugs anymore. What I do is pull the outer primary, pull the timing plug, run the timing mark(s) up into the timing hole...then I mark the alternator rotor and the inner primary. Replace the outer primary with a new gasket and use the chain inspection hole to view the timing marks. I've found that that yellow paint they use in the junk yards to mark car parts works the best. That paint sticks like shit on an Army blanket!
"Voes, 7lbs...3lbs?"
Since you're running ported heads, a different profile camshaft, and a different carburetor...I don't have a fucking clue!
"Maybe I can adjust while bike is running and listen for pinging? I think i need to raise lbs on voes cuz pinging at slight acceleration but dont understand why."Without knowing what your TDC timing is actually set at...you're pissing in the wind at that point.
"Then if I change voes does that change final full advance or just "WHEN" it reaches full advance."
VOES takes the place of advance weights. Your total advance is regulated by your ignition plate adjustment at the nosecone.
"Does module have actual curve or just advance---not advanced."
Be more specific. If you asking if the Accel has a built-in advance curve, yes. If you're asking if the VOES deals with the advance curve, yes it does...but the opposite of what an electronic module does. The VOES doesn't advance the timing...it retards it. Works the same way a vacuum advance does on a '61 Chevy.
"I understand mechanical wierghts just advance but theres no curve. Is this correct? If I understand exactly whats happening I can figure out what to do."
Then here's what I suggest you do. Go buy the complete point plate/advance weights setup and install it using your Accel module with all the dipshits turned off...making sure you have the timer centered. If you decide that's what you want to do...I'll explain centering the timer on a nosecone motor. If all else fails...plug off the VOES at the manifold; trash the Accel module; hit the flea market again for a Crane HI-4 and save yourself the grief. By: 47Knuckle-Dragger on: 10-2-2007

I wish they had a FUCKING EDIT in this section! Anyway...this is what was meant to appear in this paragraph!
Then be your own best advocate on this...find out the information for yourself. You can start by Googling (sp?) Accel on the internet...or calling them direct at (216)688-8300 and telling them you bought a bike with their Accel product and would like to know more about it by purchasing the instructions that originally came with the product. By: 47Knuckle-Dragger on: 10-2-2007

SON OF A BITCH! Clean fuckin oil. Its so stupid obvious and NO one has ever said that to me. Why didnt I think of that? And then putting marks inside primary..You fuckin rule..thanks. Thats the shit I want to learn. But i dont want weights. I just was asking are they simply an on off thing? And lets say the oem module-does that have a full curve or just on off like weights? If I understand you right weights are like voes-On/off and module is REAL curve? Correct? By: JimmyD on: 10-2-2007

"I just was asking are they simply an on off thing? And lets say the oem module-does that have a full curve or just on off like weights?"
The progression of advance-timing technology changes in the 80's and 90's. In 1980 the factory eliminated the electronic ignition with advance weights and went to a full electronic advance with their little cookie-cup timer. A hard and fast curve that couldn't be adapted to any changes in performance. I've changed and thrown more of those in the metal bin than I have TV dinner trays. The next so-called upgrade was the VOES. Good for a stock bike...but still, no help should the vacuum parameters in the manifold get changed. Enter the programmable era of EFI (too lean) and ECM (wanna' buy a flash?) to a basic engine that's worked the same since 1936.
"On/Off"? In between On/Off lies your advance curve. Probably the most important part of an engines adjustment when it comes to performance...unless you're driving a AA/Fuel dragster at full advance out of the hole!
Like I say...you want adjustable ignition...slip in a set of weights and points that are foolproof. You can buy weight sets that come with 3 different sets of springs. That allows you 9 different advance curves. I run them. Always have...always will. Or, you can go with the only other ignition I recommend and that's a Crane HI-4 single, or dual fire.
"If I understand you right weights are like voes-On/off and module is REAL curve? Correct?"
No, weights are full retard at cranking speed, then a progressive advance curve until about 2000-2500 RPM when they become fully advanced. The advance curve is everything in performance. The advantage over the two is with something mechanical you can see what's wearing and correct it with preventative maintenance. With electronic bullshit you're stuck in the middle of Shithole, Texas when it decides to give it up on you.
That help?
By: 47Knuckle-Dragger on: 10-3-2007

YES! By: JimmyD on: 10-3-2007

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